Page 44 - Shahrvand BC No.1252
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English Section
Arguments against keystone XL pipeline 44
JAISALNOOR,TRNN PRODUCER: produced 1.9 million barrels of oil that are concerned about spills. And infrastructure that will c arry oil. And 441392 دادرم25 جمعه- 1252 شماره/ سال متسیب
Welcome to The Real News Network. a day. They hope to double that in obviously the recent disaster with the the whole line about it actually being
I'm Jaisal Noor in Baltimore. the next decade and then to get that oil on the trains in Lac-Mégantic is an about--you know, even to take the In touch with Iranian diversity
TransCanada, the company that wants up to about 5 million, over 5 million example of how devastating oil spills nationalist perspective being about
to build the Keystone XL pipeline, barrels a day by 2030. And, of course, can be. So there's people opposed at a nation-building exercise, well, in Vol. 20 / No. 1252 - Friday, Aug. 16, 2013
also wants to build the Energy East Alberta's landlocked, so they need the l evel of spills in their communities. fact, much of this oil, p robably most
pipeline, a 4,400 kilometer long this new Energy East pipeline to And there's, you know, sort of farmers of it is going to be exported to be
pipeline that will connect the tar get their oil to refineries in the east groups that want full consultation and refined elsewhere, you know, going
sands to Eastern Canada. Canadian coast of Canada, as well off to the proper payment in terms of if their to a place like India, where we're just
Prime Minister Stephen Harper told international market. land is impacted in terms of building talking about expanding, you know,
reporters in Quebec on August 2 that the pipeline. But there's also, I think, the amount of oil use. In the case of
his government backs the project in NOOR: And what's been the the more important opposition, which Canada, we are already producing
principle. Canada, quote, "strongly reaction of the local communities is the fact that this is about trying to more oil than Canadians are using.
supports constructing energy that could be impacted by this, the curtail the expansion of the tar sands. So if it's really just about, you know,
infrastructure that will help transport construction of this pipeline? If they can't get their oil to the market, Canadian oil needs, there's more than
Western Canadian oil to the east," ENGLER: So it was only the investments and the costs of doing enough being produced. This is really
Harper wrote in an April 29 letter announced formally a week ago that business in the tar sands increase and about exporting and increasing energy
to Conservative lawmakers in New TransCanada's going ahead with this, make it less--you know, put pressure use elsewhere. Canada, of course, is
Brunswick. that they're going to seek approval to stop this, the insanity of their plans a country that should--we should be
from the National Energy Board. It's to double, triple tar sands expansion. massively reducing how much oil
Now joining us to discuss this latest been in discussion for a while. So So I think the opposition is--it often we're using right now, let alone, you
news and tell us more about this there has been grassroots opposition. focuses on sort of local concerns, but k now, increasing it. But the dominant
proposed pipeline is Yves E ngler. He's Here in Ottawa, there's a group it's really being m otivated by those media has been very sympathetic to
a Canadian commentator and author. called E cology Ottawa that is already who are concerned with the science the pipeline, of c ourse.
His most recent book is The Ugly beginning a grassroots campaign. It's showing that the climate's getting And it's not a surprise that, you know,
Canadian - S tephen Harper's Foreign already had quite the s uccess. They've h otter, the parts per million of carbon TransCanada and other oil companies
Policy. The book explores Canada's already knocked on 10,000 doors of in the atmosphere is growing. So are big advertisers. They have a
extensive military campaign in Libya, members in the city of Ottawa, telling there is significant o pposition. At the constant campaign in the papers
opposition to social transformation them the plan is to have this pipeline provincial level there's--it's expected that--I'm talking about the tar sands
in Latin America, and support for the go through Ottawa's boundary. that the most opposition will come oil producers here, the Canadian
right-wing Israeli government. There's many different environmental in Quebec, where there's lots of polls Association of Petroleum Producers-
groups that have come out against it. showing that Quebeckers are the -a constant campaign mostly in the
Thank you for joining us, Yves. The Council of Canadians, a major most concerned about environmental business section of the newspapers
national political organization, has issues, most concerned about climate really promoting their impact on the
YVES ENGLER, AUTHOR, come out and said they're going to change. And the provincial Parti Canadian economy. A nd that type of
POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: oppose the pipeline. There are some Quebecois government has not thinking, you know, it trickles down
Thanks for having me. First Nations in the Maritimes that come out in favor and not really throughout the newspapers. And they
have expressed some opposition and come out against the pipeline, but of course have a lot more money to
NOOR: So, Yves, can you break say they want full consultation on this. that will probably be the focal point spend on advertising in newspapers
down this pipeline? What kind There's questions of labor unions and of opposition. If this project is to be than environmental groups or
of scale are we talking about? their position on it, especially if it's an blocked as the K eystone XL has been oppositional groups are spending. So
A nd how does it compare to the export pipeline, because it appears that so far, it's probably going to come the dominant media is supportive.
Keystone XL? the main o bjective here is not to refine from grassroots popular mobilization But as we've seen in other instances,
ENGLER: Well, we're talking a the oil in the eastern part of Canada, in Quebec. like the KXL, like the Northern
pipeline that is almost twice the size in Montreal, Quebec City, or S t. John, Gateway, even when the dominant
of Keystone XL. We're talking about but in fact to export it to refineries NOOR: So, you know, as we media is supportive, if grassroots
1.1 million barrels of oil a day being in India, and actually possibly even mentioned, this pipeline has only groups are sufficiently determined and
shipped 4,400 kilometers, which is export it to the G ulf Coast, where the recently been announced. But sufficiently organized, one, you can
about--a lmost 3,000 miles. Keystone XL is sending oil to some how would you evaluate how the sway the media's line a little bit, and
And what TransCanada's discussing of the refineries down there. And, mainstream media has reported two, it doesn't matter, because you can
doing is they already have 3,000 in fact, this is just a very long and on this and whether proponents seek out other sources of media and
kilometers of a natural gas pipeline, potentially more politically palatable and opponents have gotten similar you can, you know, seek out personal
and they want to expand that and route to get it down to the Gulf Coast. airtime and where the media falls communication that trumps the power
transform that natural gas pipeline into So there's lots of opposition. There's on this issue? of the corporate media.
a pipeline that can handle DILBIT, opposition at the level of groups ENGLER: Well, I mean, the media
diluted bitumen, from Alberta's tar almost entirely has come out in NOOR: Yves Engler, thank you
sands and build 1,400 kilometers support of the pipeline. The head of so much for joining us. And we'll
more of pipeline through Quebec and TransCanada said this was a nation- certainly keep following this story.
into the Maritimes. So we're talking building exercise, and much of the ENGLER: Thanks for having me.
about--this is a scale that is--you media has echoed that prospective.
know, it's immense, one of the biggest I think that it's--you know, the NOOR: And thank you for joining
pipelines, I think probably the b iggest environmental groups, because it is us on The Real News Network.
pipeline in Canadian history. such a big issue, the environmental
And this is--the project is intimately groups have gotten some airtime. But
tied to the fact that there is opposition the connection b etween the big picture
to the Keystone XL, o bviously, in the of climate disturbances, growing,
U.S. and that that's not going forward you know, environmental disasters
at the moment, and also the fact that reports that, you know, over 100,000
there's opposition to pipelines being people are already dying because of
proposed through British Columbia, climate disturbances, m ostly in places
the Enbridge pipeline, Northern like Ethiopia and Bangladesh, that's
Gateway, as well as another one, obviously not being connected to the
Kinder Morgan, down through pipeline.
Vancouver. The dominant media line is that, you
And so the tar sands producers, 2012, know, we need oil, and so we need
Arguments against keystone XL pipeline 44
JAISALNOOR,TRNN PRODUCER: produced 1.9 million barrels of oil that are concerned about spills. And infrastructure that will c arry oil. And 441392 دادرم25 جمعه- 1252 شماره/ سال متسیب
Welcome to The Real News Network. a day. They hope to double that in obviously the recent disaster with the the whole line about it actually being
I'm Jaisal Noor in Baltimore. the next decade and then to get that oil on the trains in Lac-Mégantic is an about--you know, even to take the In touch with Iranian diversity
TransCanada, the company that wants up to about 5 million, over 5 million example of how devastating oil spills nationalist perspective being about
to build the Keystone XL pipeline, barrels a day by 2030. And, of course, can be. So there's people opposed at a nation-building exercise, well, in Vol. 20 / No. 1252 - Friday, Aug. 16, 2013
also wants to build the Energy East Alberta's landlocked, so they need the l evel of spills in their communities. fact, much of this oil, p robably most
pipeline, a 4,400 kilometer long this new Energy East pipeline to And there's, you know, sort of farmers of it is going to be exported to be
pipeline that will connect the tar get their oil to refineries in the east groups that want full consultation and refined elsewhere, you know, going
sands to Eastern Canada. Canadian coast of Canada, as well off to the proper payment in terms of if their to a place like India, where we're just
Prime Minister Stephen Harper told international market. land is impacted in terms of building talking about expanding, you know,
reporters in Quebec on August 2 that the pipeline. But there's also, I think, the amount of oil use. In the case of
his government backs the project in NOOR: And what's been the the more important opposition, which Canada, we are already producing
principle. Canada, quote, "strongly reaction of the local communities is the fact that this is about trying to more oil than Canadians are using.
supports constructing energy that could be impacted by this, the curtail the expansion of the tar sands. So if it's really just about, you know,
infrastructure that will help transport construction of this pipeline? If they can't get their oil to the market, Canadian oil needs, there's more than
Western Canadian oil to the east," ENGLER: So it was only the investments and the costs of doing enough being produced. This is really
Harper wrote in an April 29 letter announced formally a week ago that business in the tar sands increase and about exporting and increasing energy
to Conservative lawmakers in New TransCanada's going ahead with this, make it less--you know, put pressure use elsewhere. Canada, of course, is
Brunswick. that they're going to seek approval to stop this, the insanity of their plans a country that should--we should be
from the National Energy Board. It's to double, triple tar sands expansion. massively reducing how much oil
Now joining us to discuss this latest been in discussion for a while. So So I think the opposition is--it often we're using right now, let alone, you
news and tell us more about this there has been grassroots opposition. focuses on sort of local concerns, but k now, increasing it. But the dominant
proposed pipeline is Yves E ngler. He's Here in Ottawa, there's a group it's really being m otivated by those media has been very sympathetic to
a Canadian commentator and author. called E cology Ottawa that is already who are concerned with the science the pipeline, of c ourse.
His most recent book is The Ugly beginning a grassroots campaign. It's showing that the climate's getting And it's not a surprise that, you know,
Canadian - S tephen Harper's Foreign already had quite the s uccess. They've h otter, the parts per million of carbon TransCanada and other oil companies
Policy. The book explores Canada's already knocked on 10,000 doors of in the atmosphere is growing. So are big advertisers. They have a
extensive military campaign in Libya, members in the city of Ottawa, telling there is significant o pposition. At the constant campaign in the papers
opposition to social transformation them the plan is to have this pipeline provincial level there's--it's expected that--I'm talking about the tar sands
in Latin America, and support for the go through Ottawa's boundary. that the most opposition will come oil producers here, the Canadian
right-wing Israeli government. There's many different environmental in Quebec, where there's lots of polls Association of Petroleum Producers-
groups that have come out against it. showing that Quebeckers are the -a constant campaign mostly in the
Thank you for joining us, Yves. The Council of Canadians, a major most concerned about environmental business section of the newspapers
national political organization, has issues, most concerned about climate really promoting their impact on the
YVES ENGLER, AUTHOR, come out and said they're going to change. And the provincial Parti Canadian economy. A nd that type of
POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: oppose the pipeline. There are some Quebecois government has not thinking, you know, it trickles down
Thanks for having me. First Nations in the Maritimes that come out in favor and not really throughout the newspapers. And they
have expressed some opposition and come out against the pipeline, but of course have a lot more money to
NOOR: So, Yves, can you break say they want full consultation on this. that will probably be the focal point spend on advertising in newspapers
down this pipeline? What kind There's questions of labor unions and of opposition. If this project is to be than environmental groups or
of scale are we talking about? their position on it, especially if it's an blocked as the K eystone XL has been oppositional groups are spending. So
A nd how does it compare to the export pipeline, because it appears that so far, it's probably going to come the dominant media is supportive.
Keystone XL? the main o bjective here is not to refine from grassroots popular mobilization But as we've seen in other instances,
ENGLER: Well, we're talking a the oil in the eastern part of Canada, in Quebec. like the KXL, like the Northern
pipeline that is almost twice the size in Montreal, Quebec City, or S t. John, Gateway, even when the dominant
of Keystone XL. We're talking about but in fact to export it to refineries NOOR: So, you know, as we media is supportive, if grassroots
1.1 million barrels of oil a day being in India, and actually possibly even mentioned, this pipeline has only groups are sufficiently determined and
shipped 4,400 kilometers, which is export it to the G ulf Coast, where the recently been announced. But sufficiently organized, one, you can
about--a lmost 3,000 miles. Keystone XL is sending oil to some how would you evaluate how the sway the media's line a little bit, and
And what TransCanada's discussing of the refineries down there. And, mainstream media has reported two, it doesn't matter, because you can
doing is they already have 3,000 in fact, this is just a very long and on this and whether proponents seek out other sources of media and
kilometers of a natural gas pipeline, potentially more politically palatable and opponents have gotten similar you can, you know, seek out personal
and they want to expand that and route to get it down to the Gulf Coast. airtime and where the media falls communication that trumps the power
transform that natural gas pipeline into So there's lots of opposition. There's on this issue? of the corporate media.
a pipeline that can handle DILBIT, opposition at the level of groups ENGLER: Well, I mean, the media
diluted bitumen, from Alberta's tar almost entirely has come out in NOOR: Yves Engler, thank you
sands and build 1,400 kilometers support of the pipeline. The head of so much for joining us. And we'll
more of pipeline through Quebec and TransCanada said this was a nation- certainly keep following this story.
into the Maritimes. So we're talking building exercise, and much of the ENGLER: Thanks for having me.
about--this is a scale that is--you media has echoed that prospective.
know, it's immense, one of the biggest I think that it's--you know, the NOOR: And thank you for joining
pipelines, I think probably the b iggest environmental groups, because it is us on The Real News Network.
pipeline in Canadian history. such a big issue, the environmental
And this is--the project is intimately groups have gotten some airtime. But
tied to the fact that there is opposition the connection b etween the big picture
to the Keystone XL, o bviously, in the of climate disturbances, growing,
U.S. and that that's not going forward you know, environmental disasters
at the moment, and also the fact that reports that, you know, over 100,000
there's opposition to pipelines being people are already dying because of
proposed through British Columbia, climate disturbances, m ostly in places
the Enbridge pipeline, Northern like Ethiopia and Bangladesh, that's
Gateway, as well as another one, obviously not being connected to the
Kinder Morgan, down through pipeline.
Vancouver. The dominant media line is that, you
And so the tar sands producers, 2012, know, we need oil, and so we need
